Exclusive interview: Director Mali Elfman talks ‘Next Exit’

What happens after we die? It’s arguably the single biggest unanswered question in the history of humanity, but writer and director Mali Elfman’s feature-length debut Next Exit gives a definitive answer in the very first scene.

Karen Gillan’s scientist Dr. Stevensen and her Life Beyond company have uncovered proof that the afterlife exists, and now willing participants are signing up to be euthanized in order to contribute to the ongoing research. The supernaturally-tinged blend of existential sci-fi, road trip movie, character-driven drama, and odd couple caper finds Katie Parker’s Rose and Rahul Kohli’s Teddy paired up to head across the country to meet their demise, before they forge an unexpected connection along the way.

Next Exit has been a decade in the making for longtime producer Elfman (daughter of famed composer and four-time Academy Award nominee Danny), and it’s a true labor of love. Ahead of the film’s release, We Got This Covered had the chance to speak to the filmmaker about her first film, the difficulties in combining the personal aspects of the story with the universal, the coincidences that connect almost the entire cast through iZombie and Mike Flanagan, as well as what comes next, which you can check out below.

How does it feel knowing that your 10-year journey is so close to an end, with Next Exit finally set for release?

Terrifying? It’s scary, it’s the scariest part of all of it. I wish I could say that I made my art now I’m done and off, it goes into the world, because that’s the reality, and there’s nothing I can do. But I do really hope that this film resonates. And I do hope that it finds its audience.

It was written with a lot of intention of hopefully trying to be effective for people who are going through hard times in their life. Making it as fun, and I don’t want to say easy, but it’s what I do for a living, you know? So it is my joy, and it is my happiness. Knowing that other people are going to see it, experience, judge it, and decide how they feel about it without me being able to explain it or do anything, is terrifying!

Somebody once said to me that a filmmaker is never done with a movie, it just gets taken away from them eventually. Is that something you agree with?

Yeah. And I mean, I always knew my limitations on this. I think I got to edit for six weeks, we had three sound design days, we did all the score in four weeks, like, it was always going to be that. We had a team of 20 driving across the United States, it was a small movie that I think we made look much bigger than what we had.

But yeah, I actually have to stop watching the movie because I can’t not see things that I would love to adjust. And I think we did a great job. I’m very proud of it. I love this film. And I love the work that everybody did. But yes, I would definitely make edits. I did sneak in last night, it was playing, and I happen to sneak in during one of my favorite scenes. And I was like, “That doesn’t work. That’s pretty cool”. And then I left before I might see anything else that I would judge.

Obviously, the story is about what you could reasonably call the biggest question in the history of humankind, but the driving force is always the dynamic between Teddy and Rose. Did striking the right balance between the existential elements and the characters without ever letting one drown out or overwhelm the other pose any challenges at all?

I mean, it’s definitely a huge challenge. For me, it was one that ultimately… I did kind of more drop the existential questions for the human ones, I wanted to start this with the bigger questions of what is causing them to ask this. But ultimately, it’s always about the human interactions. And it’s always about how people react to it.

And hopefully, you get carried into these two people’s stories. And so at the end of the day, that’s kind of the most important thing. So for me, that’s how this all started was with the big idea, but then really leaning on the humanity of these two people.

Given that the story revolves around the notion of what happens life after death, people could interpret the film in different ways depending on their own belief system. Was that something you ever considered, even though it’s technically answered in the very first scene?

Absolutely. And I try not to answer too many of those questions. Because I mean, something that we saw happen with COVID, when COVID hit, and we were first given the information, I thought it was very kind of clear about what we were supposed to do. And then it became very apparent that a lot of other people did not agree with me.

And then it got turned into political things. And then it got turned into everything else. And it seemed like a time when people could come together. And instead, they all went and just used it to further separate themselves. And I thought, “How disappointing!”. Once again, humanity, we can do better. So you know, that had always been the conceit of this, but it became much more apparent, and I think people understand it more with this, which is, we take life’s biggest question, and we have an answer. And that should be something very exciting, but a lot of people might just use that to further their own perspectives in the film. Because everybody is trying to just prove themselves right.

And I think the scariest thing is knowing that you’re wrong. And can people accept that if that is the case? And I have a feeling that people will definitely watch this and argue with me. Which is interesting, in the screenings that we’ve done, people interpreting scenes different than what I intended, but you know, on with your bad self! Art is subjective!

It’s been a decade in the making, and Next Exit is obviously very special to you to hold onto it for this long, but the overarching themes and sentiments are timeless ones that are always at the forefront of the cultural or societal conversation. Almost everything in the movie is both personal and universal at the same time, which can’t have been an easy balance to find during writing and production.

You know, I think I would have if I’d thought about it like that, probably! I think we just… I don’t know, this was such a personal story, and such a personal experience. And these characters are ones that I enjoyed writing so much, that for me, they really, I just followed them through the story. I knew that I needed to disrupt them, and I knew the information that I wanted to pull out of them.

And so for me, it was just finding ways of forcing that to come out, and trying to find ways of subverting norms. And always trying to make sure that I didn’t teeter into melodrama, because you can very easily do that at any moment, whenever you’re getting into trauma and backstories and all of that, it can get very traumatic. And I think one of my goals was, I want to be earnest about what they’re going through, but I really don’t want to dwell on it.

I really want to be able to find some joy, and some humor, and some fun in all of this, and not be glib about it either. that that was the balance. And I think that’s kind of who I am, I have kind of that sensibility anyway, so it was just making sure that once I had written that, that I gave it to people, and I heard notes, and if I had gone too far, I could pull it back. And same thing with the cut as I went, it was always kind of testing it to see how people were interpreting it.

Because I can mean one thing, but especially when you’re doing those kind of dark comedy, jokes that are a little bit maybe hard to take, you do have to make sure that you really listen to those notes, and and try to have no ego when people say “what the hell are you talking about?”. Which happens!

It’s your feature-length directorial debut, but you’ve got plenty of experience as a filmmaker and producer. Did that make it easier for you to step behind the camera and take charge, or was it still daunting on day one when you called “action” for the first time?

You know, day one, we flew to Kansas City and we went outside, and the temperature dropped to below freezing. And so the main thing is that I was was cold, very cold, which you probably in Glasgow know something about. That’s the coldest I’ve ever been, by the way, a night outside in January in Glasgow for a full night shoot was the coldest my body had ever been!

But I got to challenge that in Kansas City, where it was probably equally as cold. Honestly, I think my experience of working with first-time directors so many times let me know kind of the common pitfalls and not fall into them. And I’m incredibly comfortable on set, like on set is my happy place. So as soon as I got there, I really felt like I was at home. I really didn’t go into this thinking, you know, I am not like an overly confident person.

So I didn’t go into this being like, “I’m gonna kick ass!”. I went into it being like, “I wonder what’s going to happen?”. And every single day, just kind of going into it with that curiosity. And I was gonna do my best, and I was gonna follow through with it. And I didn’t know if it was going to be any good at this or not. And I tried not to put that on myself.

Because when you’re thinking too much while you’re shooting about how you might be perceived, you’re just going to screw up your day, and you’re never going to be able to accomplish what you’re trying to accomplish. So I knew the intentions, I knew the characters, and I just focused on that. And whenever I did that I was just happy.

You don’t have to play six degrees of separation to connect almost the entire principal cast, you can do it pretty much through iZombie and Mike Flanagan projects. Did that make it easier on and offscreen for the actors to connect and establish dynamics, given that most of them have at least one thing in common away from the camera even if they’d never met beforehand?

Okay, first of all, Tongayi [Chirisa] came to me through an audition! And it wasn’t until I saw his audition I said, “Oh my god, that guy’s amazing. I want him in the film”. And then I looked at his IMDb, and I was like, “Goddammit, he’s from iZombie!”. I got so mad about that one, but he was so good! And so I ended up working with him, but I just I couldn’t believe I did that.

With Katie, I’ve actually been friends with Katie for over the past decade, and obviously we have mutual friends. And that’s actually how I met Rose McIver, was through Katie. Karen and I have worked together for almost eight years now, something like that, on many different projects. And Rahul was the one that I did. I called up Mike, and I called up Rose. and I said, “I want him in my movie”.

And both of them were pestering him to be in it. And he was, by the time I got on a Zoom, he’s like, “So you’re coming at it from all sides?”. And I was like, “Yes, I am”. And it was wonderful. Katie and Rahul had known each other, but they weren’t like friends. They just met each other a few times before. Like Katie and Rose McIver, they’re very close. They actually lived together for a while, they were roommates back in the day.

So I actually had cast Katie, and I got very excited about casting Rose McIver as her sister because they they are sisters, like the natural kind of sister-bickering type of thing. And also love for one another was there. So that was really wonderful. Yeah, it was a coincidence!

One of the biggest compliments you could give to both the writing and the performances is that even if you stripped away the sci-fi and supernatural elements, the dynamic between Rose and Teddy is strong enough to be a movie in its own right. What are the chances of reuniting them for a proper buddy sequel, like Next Exit 2: Planes, Trains & Automobiles?

I love this! I think they get back in the car, they got to go get the dog first, and then you know, the car breaks down at some point. Dr. Stevensen is after them because Rose left her study in a way that she wasn’t supposed to. Also, like so many other characters in this world, who else is Dr. Stevensen going to shut down? What did Congress do? So many things I would love to answer. If you can get me financing, I’ll do it!

You’ve clearly given it a bit of thought anyway.

I could live in this world forever. This is a world that I know so well, and so many corners of it. I do feel like Rose and Teddy’s story is pretty complete. But I do love these two and, of course, would always love to come back to this world at anytime. There’s plenty more mythology to get into as well. Please share that with as many people as you possibly can!

How would you describe Next Exit in your own words? Because calling it an existential sci-fi road trip buddy dramedy about the meaning of life and death with one or two rom-com elements thrown in isn’t doing it justice or even close to describing the bigger picture.

It was so funny, when XYZ was selling this film, they were like, “Okay, you get to pick three genres”. And I was like, “I don’t know that I can do that”. So I was trying to mix words. And they’re like, “That’s six”. And I was like, “That still seems limited for me”. And then poor Magnolia has had to deal with the same thing.

I think the thing is, is this is a character study of two characters, and it is earnest about the darkness, and the macabre, and the scariness of life. But ultimately, it should be really fucking fun. And that’s the goal of it. And I don’t want to… the world is a really tough place as is, and I don’t want to ignore that. But I also want to be able to bring some light to it.

And so I’m hoping that what this film can do is take people on a ride, and have them have some real moments in which they can connect to themselves, but also let go.

Now that Next Exit is almost ready to be unleashed on the world, what comes next? Is there anything you’re working on currently that you can talk about, or are you sworn to secrecy?

I did just finish producing about six weeks ago, we just finished production on Birth/Rebirth, Laura Moss’ modern-day Frankenstein retelling, but I produced that. I’m very eager to direct again, and I’m very eager to direct a horror film. I’m hoping to do it next year. But I really want to strut my stuff in that arena. I really want some special effects, and I really want some blood.

If you could direct any project of your choosing without restrictions, what would it be and why?

Oh no. Oh, this is too much. Oh, it’s so good. There’s so many things. Well, I’m just gonna say, you know, I think one of the books that I just read by Clay McLeod Chapman, Ghost Eaters, I just fell in love with. I thought that was really wonderful. And he’s somebody that I’ve been wanting to collaborate with for a long time. And a really good ghost story is always something that I’m after. So there’s that.

There is a book that I’m trying to work on called The Broken Girls that I absolutely love, which is women throughout different timelines, dealing with tearing down the patriarchy and ghosts connecting them all. And I’m just like, that is my jam. I’ve been a huge fan of Mark Z. Danielewski for a long time. I don’t know if there’s anything there. I don’t know. There’s too much stuff that nobody will give me. But hopefully they will soon.

And I’m going to have to think about that question a little bit more. I want up to do a lot. I really want to. I have another project that hopefully is coming next, which is straight horror, but honestly, I have a ghost story from my childhood. That is my experience of ghosts when I was six years old. And that’s the thing that I really want to tell next.

Next Exit releases today, and you can check out our review of the movie here.